I already had withering contempt for all British mainstream parties and I was already cynical about our so called democratic process long before I ever started OF.
However, any last dying ember of trust I had in it died this past week.
It is not the fact that the Bill didn’t get heard. We now all know that it did not require to be heard so long as no one objected. This is what they refer to as ‘nodding through’. We know that Anna Turley claimed on a Tweet that someone did indeed utter the phrase of objecting.
After that it just becomes a giant fog. She blamed Phil Davies and someone else whose name she said she could remember. Phil Davies states that its an outrage that he should get blamed since A) He told her he’d support it and B) He was not in the room at the time.
The claim that he was not present appears to have been confirmed on Monday in Parliament itself.
What we expected to swallow here is that this Bill could have been nodded through but wasn’t because someone uttered ‘object’. What seems completely unclear is who. It cannot have been a man that was not there, not unless he is skilled in ventriloquism.
Isn’t it in the interests of all MP’s to put asde their petty party politics and simply give the public a clear and definitive answer to ONE simple queston? Wouldn’t that be better than the press speculating, the public guessing and us having to try to piece the truth together despite obstacles and contrary claims by MP’s?
It is a total embarrassment that this happened one week ago tomorrow and STILL the public have no idea WHO blocked the animal abuse Bill.
All MP’s of all parties should hang their heads in shame at the lack of clarity and transparency here. This isn’t some complex debate on the different theories of the universe.
Anna Turley claims someone shouted ‘object’. That would be enough to stop it getting nodded through. A human being must have said the word. Davies was not in the room.
Jesus wept – this is honesty like trying to get poorly socialised children to confess to a theft.
Its almost pathetic the way its needing to be done. Imagine being reduced to having to get to the name by a process of elimination in this way. Any time a name is mentioned that MP steps forward to state that it wasn’t them. Is this democracy, having to throw names out so they publicly deny it until we finally see who the last man standing is?
Is that really preferable to simply being told it was X MP who called ‘object’?
Since the MP’s who claim they were totally innocent are so quick to virtue signal and clear their own names then lets see them act with the same haste and give up the name of the person(s) who allegedly stated that they objected.
I do not see why that one thing should be too big of an ask.
If they are sincere about accuracy, if they are really on side with the Bill – prove it. Tell the public who objected.
I doubt Anna Turley had an episode of psychosis and imagined it in her head. So who stated it?
I doubt that Phil Davies would state “someone else blocked it” for no reason. Lets believe him. So who blocked it?
I do not expect any public servant to offer you a definite answer any time soon. If they were going to they would have done so by now.
This is something they should keep in mind the next time they go crying they were victims of the press or social media – its their OWN lack of communication and honesty which causes the press and public to try to fill in the gaps.
If they do not want the press and public to fill in the gaps then they need to get their story straight and the public need a definitive answer.
Any tiny grain of faith I had in this process has evaporated. The way the public servants have handled this since last Friday has been less about a consensus of truth and more about reputation saving and counter accusations between different party members.
I did not have much faith in Private Members Bills from the get go and said as much. Too much of a fail rate. Very little historical evidence of them making it into law. I do not see a practical value in something that appears largely cosmetic. Wikipedia states that such Bills are generally used to draw attention to an issue. However, we were generating plenty of attention before Friday to these matters and in the days since Friday the only attention has been on this cheap political point scoring.
I have zero confidence that it will be heard in March. This type of Bill can be blocked and kicked down the line – indefinitely. Any process that is vulnerable to that does not seem that valuable to me.
This is far far too serious to think small and be playing these games of pretending this Bill is going to lead to a new Golden Age. It wont. These Bills and the process itself is a rigged game – its designed to frustrate over and over.
This process is like some giant game. Theatre. It is impossible for me to see it any other way and only a professional politician would deny it – but then they would.
This sort of thing would be acceptable for a Parish council discussing getting a contractor for new slate work for the roof of a community centre. At least then the consequences of a bunch of people messing around and procrastinating wouldn’t be very serious.
This sort of theatre we saw last Friday and this almost Teflon like refusal to give the public a clear answer is NOT acceptable for our Parliament.
I would not even like to fully calculate the total human and animal cost to this type of theatre. That’s what all this procrastination leads directly to – thousands more victims that need not have been victims at all.
Moreover, it is a well accepted fact that the number of years given to any offender is meant to be a reflection of how abhorrent we find that action as a society.
When MP’s play these games and waste time with this theatre they are simply buying more time for more sadists to do more sadism. They also send out a message that sadism is not really a big issue since they can afford to mess around with procedures that are designed to fail.
I do not discriminate between any party. I have almost equal contempt for them all. I have only cast one vote in my life and even then it was for a single policy issue and never any of these parties. I’ve never cast a vote for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems, SNP – none of them.
A vote is an endorsement, its a gesture of faith. I have no faith in them as parties. I have no faith in the probably out of date version of representative democracy that we are meant to have in this country. I do not believe in it for all sorts of reasons. I do not believe or have faith in any of these parties as they all have a long and inglorious history of lying, and often with far more devastating consequences than a few people triggering the emotions of a well paid MP on social media.
They have been ripping us all of with their expense accounts going as far back as I can recall. If some women was signing on and claiming JSA she would be completely crucified by the system. But when politicians are proven to have scammed the public purse for HUGE sums of money their excuses are accepted and they are quietly permitted to pay back the money and keep their job.
The hypocrisy makes me sick.
They whine and whine about being finally burned by the own anti democratic tactics they are on record as boasting about and yet was it not Parliament and many of these MP’s that voted to bomb the crap out of Libya (for no clear reason) or Iraq (based on flat out lies?).
This is a system that produced MP’s (and Lords) like Greville Janner, a serial child rapist. Despite there being overwhelming evidence to try him the system closes in to protect him and said it wasn’t in the public interest to try him.
If you don’t think that some of his colleagues were well aware of his penchant for child rape then you’d be naive. Some most certainly would have. There would be key figures in police and Intel services that would have been aware as well. But he was allowed to get away with it by way of repeatedly blocking any efforts to bring him to justice. Just like Jimmy Saville they managed to stall and stall just long enough until he died.
This system is not some noble and virtuous example of public representation that we can be proud of. Its a facade. Its not democracy. Its fake democracy.
You are ALL being made fools of by this Government, by this system and by nearly all of the MP’s whose career and income depend on the system existing as it is. The joke is on you only its not a very amusing one because the consequences are more victims and more emboldened predators.
Its like one big crime syndicate with a few consciousness people thrown in.
Even the schools that parties recruit from (esp the Tories) are questionable to say the least. While they may be expensive and exclusive, I cannot help but notice that some extremely bizarre behaviours seem encouraged or prolific at such places.
We recently read the story about a Cambridge student burning a £20 note in front of a homeless person and how at Oxford they try to use a £50. These are your future cabinet ministers and judges here. What use are shining academic qualifications if they have been educated for callousness and cruelty?
What sort of judges and other senior officials will they grow up to be in the future? Probably the kind who would let child abusers and pet sadists walk free. I wont even get into the long and dark history of sexual abuses that seem part of the culture at such establishments except to say (again), that these are your future ministers and judges.
This is your country. You do not have another one. Many of these well paid public officials can retire to the Bahamas if they want. Even if they keep living here they live in good neighbourhoods with access to more special protections than you will ever be afforded for anything. Its not their dogs that will get kidnapped by four inbred mutants and burned alive. Its not their kids that Andy Frankish would live out his fantasy of raping kids and defecating on them.
Its YOUR dogs.
Its YOUR kids.
Not their kids. Their kids will be afforded the best schools, a good neighbourhood and generally kept away from all this filth.
You on the other hand have no free choice but to have this sub human garbage infest YOUR community and street.
And what are MP’s doing? Filibustering, whining about a few strongly worded e mails, protecting their own backside, failing to be fully transparent and virtue signalling.
They collectively disgust me. I challenge you to pick out some MP’s at random and read their Wiki bio. About 75% of them have some scandal in their career background that would have seen us sacked from normal jobs.
They are all so very quick to say it WASN’T them who blocked it. They are oddly tardy when it comes to the key matter of who did.
Are they honestly so arrogant and far removed from reality that they are unaware of the impression this leaves with people? Are they perhaps aware but so haughty they feel untouchable?
The impression it leaves with people is this – its just another death knell for democracy and for morality.
Despite their supposed quality education it strikes me that these MP’s are fairly poor educated in the matters of history and group psychology.
My question to all 650 of them would be this, and its a really important question;
What happens when the population become convinced that democracy no longer works? I know the answer but what’s important is that they understand the answer. Its not a threat, its a fact. When democratic means have historically proven to be thwarted or usurped by a perceived privileged group then the people abandon democratic means and that we all have a problem on our hands.
One need only look to Russia to se where that can end up. There are groups that are active in Russia that I guess could be seen as grass roots movements like OF or Dark Justice. Here’s the difference. They pay absolutely no mind to due process or law. They appoint themselves judge, jury and sometimes executioner.
While they broadly masquerade as being (example) anti paedphile groups, in practice it is a disaster. All it has turned into is an excuse for sadists to get together in a mob and torture someone that THEY say is a paedophile. Hard facts and evidence don’t matter. In fact many innocent heterosexuals and gay people have been kidnapped and tortured by such groups.
That is NOT civilisation. That is NOT the answer. But it IS where any country could end up IF people lose all faith in the democratic process and if they become convinced that the actions of ministers is simply creating more victims and giving the green light to more offenders.
It will get to a point where it will attract a low quality of mob, one that will do things that will be tragic.
I can see that happening in the near future. I do not want it to and Theresa May should personally thank us for trying to steer things away from that direction. But they aren’t exactly making it easy for us when they themselves stand in the way of what should have been done years ago – make the punishment fit the crime.
That’s ALL they need to do. Why not simply use their Government privilege to pick up the baton, by pass the Private Members Bill and simply fast track 5 year sentences for convicted sadists?
The public wont revolt against the Government if they do. If anything it would restore faith and it would DEFINITELY stop us from getting to that point described above.
Theresa May’s own party members are saying they would happily endorse it.
I do not think there would be much resistance from Labour or the SNP.
Why not simply get the process going properly? It would seem a win/win to me. I truly do not see how it is even possible for them to do it and come out looking anything but good.
We need to find a way to by pass the painful and seemingly futile process of a Private Members Bill.
We need to make the Government most responsible and put it on them.
Since I could comfortably name ten things May has made a public statement on that didn’t concern matters of true importance then I see no reason why she should not be pressed for a statement on this. Not just by us and some people on social media. The press should be pushing her for a statement on this. Her own ministers should be pushing her to do it. And her opposition should certainly all be doing it.
The precise same thing can be said of Liz Truss. She holds a very senior position – Justice Minister. Her department has a budget of £9billion. I often read her press statements and many are absurdly vacuous. Like her boss she needs to BE a Justice Minister and take a lead role.
This is no sleight on Anna Turley but I do not see this Bill getting us anywhere anytime soon. All I see in the future would be more of what we saw last Friday. No thanks!
We have to hold the current Government most accountable. Even if they have ministers that go on record as saying they WOULD do a thing, we still need to hold them collectively accountable (Ministers make broken pledges all the time anyway).
If those ministers in Government are sincere then that is good – don’t put it in print. Go speak to your boss and go speak to Truss. You must see them. You must be able to talk directly to them. Do that then. If there are really Tory MP’s that want to be seen on the right side then why not get together and use your political party power to do that?
I think this is what we must do. We must speak truth to power and the main power is Government. We must appeal to them and even provide good arguments and evidence as to why they should take what was a Private Members Bill and transform it into something which actually has a tangible and much faster end result.
May is the boss. The message should be at her – as was planned. If not May then Truss. I think we need to put the message and focus there and see if we can corner them into making a statement and commitment by virtue of the press etc. This should be done with a fly over as was planned for last weekend and that’s been paid for. We were just waiting for dust to settle this week.
However, that’s not enough. We want to do something that we can roll out probably the week after we do the fly over. This will indeed be something that is visibly received by Tory Party HQ. However, it will also be received by Labour HQ, Lib Dems HQ, UKIP and the SNP. All on the same day. Nor will there be any denial of the fact that they received it (its a document). Why? Because there will be video evidence from all for HQ’s. This video evidence will then be merged together and with that video evidence (and the contents), we shall endeavour to ensure our press are permitted to see and have full access to both.
This will make for extremely good optics and the contents themselves will beg a public response from ….. well, ALL of them.
That’s the double plan for the next few weeks and that’s our view of Private Members Bills.